Land Rover Discovery 2: Buyer's Guide

"AMGtech - now with more recalls!" (amgtech) 11/09/2015 at 16:17 • Filed to: Broke demuro edition

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These things have been dangerously cheap for years now and even though I haven’t worked on Rovers for a living in years I still get questions about them, frequently. Lots of people are interested in picking them up for off-road rigs, and rightfully so. But lots of those people are also scared of owning one of “the least reliable vehicles ever made”, again rightfully so. But with some care (and luck!) they’re not that unreasonable. So I give you this beginner’s list of things to look out for and hopefully help protect your savings account.

In true broke DeMuro style, let’s start of with air suspension. D2’s only ever came with rear air suspension on some higher trim levels, referred to as SLS or self leveling suspension. It’s very easy and cheap to convert to coils.

Many Discos are plagued by the ABS, TC, and Hill Descent Control lights, which are commonly referred to as the three amigos. If a CEL does not accompany them there is a good chance it needs what’s called the ”shuttle valve switch”. Some people will try to tell you it needs a whole ABS modulator/hydraulic unit but that isn’t true. There’s a modification to do to the wiring when replacing the shuttle valve switch. It’s really quite easy, even if your wiring skills are barely there. The switch is pretty cheap too if I remember right. If the CEL does accompany the three amigos it will likely need one of the front wheel speed sensors. The trickiest thing about that is the new ones come with about 10ft of wire that you are supposed to run all the way to the ABS computer because the wiring between it and the sensors can go to shit. Really not that tough either.

Steering and suspension are solid. I’ve replaced a handful of ball joints on higher mileage ones. Diffs sometimes wear out also, usually bearings specifically, and make a lot of noise. But really not that common and frequent oil changes on them should help prevent that. Transfer cases sometimes leak a bit or have some bearing wear, but very rarely does that require any work to be done as they might just clunk every now and then without doing any further damage. Transmissions usually are very good, unless it shifts like cheap when you drive it or the fluid smells burnt I wouldn’t worry about it except to maybe service it.

Front driveshafts are weak. Check periodically to make sure the u-joints aren’t worn out. They can grenade and do serious damage to surrounding components, though they usually give you plenty of warning before that happens. The joints are not easy to replace unfortunately and it is neat to send them out to be rebuilt or just buy a new unit. There are some excellent aftermarket upgrades available here, such as from Tom Woods. Hard core off-roaders and overlanders should upgrade as soon as possible.

Sunroofs leak. New glass seals are available and take two minutes to install. If the leak continues you will need to reseal the sunroof frame to the vehicle roof which requires removing the headliner. But some closed-cell foam tape and/or RTV work great for this. It’s easy too, just time consuming, probably a full weekend for your first one. Best option is to get a truck without them, but those are rare, and only model year ‘99 if I remember right.

And finally, the biggest fear for disco owners, head gasket and or engine failure. Head gaskets are basically a maintenance item needing to be done anywhere from every 75k to every 150k. They usually leak oil first and then coolant. The engine blocks sometimes crack or drop cylinder liners, necessitating replacement. There is no rhyme or reason to when this happens sometimes, but it is common if the engine had been overheated. There is a heater plate on the bottom of the throttle body that leaks coolant and has caused an untold number of engine failures, check it every time you open the hood. The throttle heater is very cheap and very easy to replace, or bypass if you’re feeling... frisky(?).

My suggestion, if you’re interested in one these awesome trucks, is to look it over very thoroughly for leaks, head gaskets especially, and do a block test just to make sure the owner isn’t trying to sell you a truck with a [borderline] junk engine. Also make sure the air injection pump (sounds like a vacuum cleaner, black plastic thing in right rear corner of engine bay), works on cold start up. Don’t forget the door locks and other electrics though.

These are fantastic trucks for just about any purpose, as long as you take care of them. It’s usually a great idea to put away a little money every month into a savings account just for repairs if you buy one (honestly that’s a good idea for any car, European especially).

Yeah, they require more work than many other similar vehicles, but they are unique, quirky (in a good way), and rewarding to own. Just about every component can be upgraded and there is a wealth of aftermarket support for these. Their reputation is not undeserved, but it is exaggerated.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/09/2015 at 16:25

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This so didn’t help my want for that yellow one lol

djmt1 > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/09/2015 at 16:25

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Land Rover prices (even Defenders) are so insanely low at the moment in the UK. An alright Disco 2 can be picked up for £500. £500! I’ll be honest the thought has crossed my mind multiple times but I ain’t got monnies for wheels at the moment but when I do, I wonder what Disco 3s and MK3 Rangies will be worth.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 11/09/2015 at 16:26

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Wasn’t meant to! MUAH HA HA HA!

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/09/2015 at 16:27

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These!!!!! These are the wheels I desire more than any other for my Jazzie!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/09/2015 at 16:29

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Head gaskets are basically a maintenance item needing to be done anywhere from every 75k to every 150k. They usually leak oil first and then coolant. The engine blocks sometimes crack or drop cylinder liners, necessitating replacement. There is no rhyme or reason to when this happens sometimes, but it is common if the engine had been overheated.

ARB studs are a must for heads, and I believe some improvement is possible for the head gasket material. Both are a help. The ECU/etc. setup has the engine running hotter than it likes from a physical standpoint, which is part and parcel of a lot of these problems. I don’t know of a fix that is in any way EPA-kosher or easy to implement, sadly. Liner drops are most often seen with a lot of miles and/or overheating - worse in combination - and are often precipitated by erosion of the block/liner interface, because the liner edge is exposed to combustion. Any engine needing a full-blown rebuild ought to have top-hat liners installed and some other steps, after which all is good.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/09/2015 at 16:31

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I know it wasn’t!

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > djmt1 11/09/2015 at 16:33

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That is so cheap! Probably lots of TD5’s also, which I hear are excellent.

3’s are completely different animals!

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > djmt1 11/09/2015 at 16:35

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Lucky Brits. That and you get the bloody Defender...

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/09/2015 at 16:37

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Completely agree, didn’t feel like getting quite so elaborate tough. Cometic makes head gaskets for these, and they’re excellent. Have used those in combination with ARP studs with great success. We also got into the habit of running water wetter on every truck that had cooling system work done, because it couldn’t hurt.

Unfortunately, top hat liners are expensive and many machine shops are not capable or skilled enough to pull this job off.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 11/09/2015 at 16:38

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Aren’t those the Westminster wheels? Very nice.

Bonus, I did must of the work on the one in the background. TONS of one-off mods.

djmt1 > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 11/09/2015 at 16:39

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I would say that British cars being available in Britain should be expected but as it turns out we might be the only country that sells all of our own cars in our own country.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > djmt1 11/09/2015 at 16:40

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I mean I guess you could equate the LR availability to Mustang availability in the US but cheap Land Rovers in good condition can be hard to come by where I am (Northeast US)

djmt1 > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 11/09/2015 at 16:45

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How about Jeeps? They are also properly cheap here barring the Wranglers.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/09/2015 at 16:46

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According to the book I have on them, they demonstrably run best at insanely low temps - like 165. Just quirks of geometry, etc. etc. So what does the ECU do for emissions reasons: CRANK THAT FUCKER UP. 200+ degrees. Combine with some tendencies to leak (like you mentioned) and a whole slew of little things like bad radiator hose design on the facelifted RRC...

ALUMINUM BLOCKS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > djmt1 11/09/2015 at 16:47

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Never really looked to be honest but I know Cherokees can be had for cheap. They might not be in greatest of conditions but they can be pretty cheap. Wranglers hold more of a premium though, good resale value on those I think.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/09/2015 at 17:43

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Most of that probably stems from adapting a failed Buick engine from the 60’s to work with modern standards. YES YES YES on terrible hose design, I’m fairly certain the prince of darkness himself worked directly with either Picasso or M.C. Escher to design those. Not to mention thermostats on D2’s that look more like a plastic human heart than an automotive component. Often you can’t help but wonder what the hell they were thinking.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/10/2015 at 09:04

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At some point, “Reengineer this engine (a la ‘95)“ should have included “and consider what fails all the time at 70k instead of randomly within the first 60k”. Not “add two bolts to the mains, embiggen, fuck with the head design, and spend the rest on hookers and blow”. Actually, my grandfather had an axiom regarding each new generation of Series Rover: “They’ve fixed everything except what was wrong with it.”

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/10/2015 at 10:20

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Very apt description, wouldn’t be at all surprised if that’s actually how it went. Although they did make one change that that wasn’t quite so trivial as the others in terms of reliability, dropping the outer row of head bolts. That row was only a good idea on the Oldsmobile(?) version that also had a matching inner row.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/10/2015 at 10:42

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...although, it’s worth mentioning that the levering/imbalance caused by the outer row of bolts is only at greatest significance when the engine is running continually hot - i.e. late 80s on. Seemed like a good idea at the time back in the 60s, didn’t hurt anything much on the 3.5, usually, and just lingered waiting its time to totally suck like a bad piece of house wiring with only a 40W bulb on it.

I’ve seen pictures of bearing cap fretting, and while it *is* serious business, I don’t think it was ever much beyond a niche issue killing a percentage of engines outright before their time. Unlike heads and liners, which are like the grim fuckin’ reaper. Or cam wear on some models.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/10/2015 at 15:37

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That’s a good point, but that was back on the days of low temps and low compression with a single layer embossed gasket, really not much stress going on.

I think you’re right about bearing caps being a niche issue, I’ve worked on and built dozens of these things and never seen it myself. Rod bearings themselves would wear out on occasion and knock like hell, but not that often and they were easy to replace by just dropping the oil pan, I could do them in 2-3 hours.

Even cams, in my experience, could almost always be attributed to lack of oil changes and high mileage. Sure, some vehicles are more susceptible than others but of all the engines out there can failures only happen on a “handful” of them.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/10/2015 at 15:40

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My 4.2, which I have yet to strip down, somehow did 140k without serious cam wear, bearing issues, head gaskets, nothing. If it turns out the bores are un-ovalled, it may be a block comprised of a 3% wizardry alloy. The cam chain, of course, is stretched like a coke-smuggler’s butthole.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/10/2015 at 15:50

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That’s pretty damn good. I’ve only seen a couple go that high, one hit around 190k on original gaskets, granted it was puking and disgusting but it made it without breaking down.

They actually used the highest quality castings for the larger displacements so that might have helped.

Are you planning on doing some upgrades while you’re in there?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 11/10/2015 at 16:04

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I’m absolutely doing upgrades. It’s a transitional, so it’s got a 36A/A36/whatever upgraded block with cross-bolt bosses, so I’m doing that, and I’m keeping the crank oil pump (though I may have to replace the wear surface/case). Pistons will probably be high performance ones for a 4.0, with... not sure yet on rods. Summit has forged rods that should fit, designed for offset-ground Chevy, once the wrist pin holes are corrected 7 thou to the right diameter for the 4.0 pistons. Going to port, move to a slightly more aggressive cam, performance chain, and... maybe some rocker and spring upgrades, haven’t decided what. It’s got the biggest/waisted valves and heads cut for modern gaskets.

The induction, of course, is to be two sets of Honda bike throttle bodies. I’ve also obtained early Rover fluted valve covers, though that’s a cosmetic thing.

Nobody builds a high performance 4.2, partly because 4.6 bottom end and piston performance parts are easier, and partly because some 4.2 cranks are fragile. Screw ‘em. I’m building for revs, not compression and torque. If it breaks, may just go back with a 4.0.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/10/2015 at 17:17

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Sounds like a sweet build! I highly recommend cometic head gaskets and valve train parts from www.thewedgeshop.com . They know these engines really well and have a ton of upgrade parts available. You know, if you haven’t decided on what you’re going to use already :)

Were you planning on doing liners, boring, or offset grinding the crank itself? Been there and done all that myself years ago and might be able to remember a couple things if you’re curious.

When a friend and I fix up defenders we usually opt for a 4.2 because 4.6 parts are so hard to find. We’ve got tons of 3.9 parts laying around though, unfortunately most need recon work to be useable.